Jim Gaertner first visited Sam Houston State University (SHSU) as a teenager, when the institution was named “Sam Houston State Teachers College.”  He traveled from Yoakum, Texas (where he grew up), and decided, without a lot of thought, he wanted to attend SHSU.  Reflecting on this decision decades later, he said, “It was the right decision, possibly for the wrong reasons.”  Nancy Gaertner had planned to move from her hometown of Port Lavaca, Texas and go to college out of state, but a month before embarking on her journey, she decided on SHSU.  “My decision,” she recollected, “wasn’t very scientific.”  It was, however, fortuitous.

When did the two of you meet?

Nancy Gaertner: It was at Garner State Park, and we were on (separate) family vacations with our parents.  The meeting was an incidental one.  But four years later, in 1963, one of my friends who was on that trip with my family, said, “I saw Jim Gaertner the other day, and he goes to SHSU, too!” Anyway, Jim called me, and we went out on a date, but when we met for the date, I don’t think either one of us recognized the other from Garner State Park.

Faded memories aside, the date must have been a good one.

NG: When I was a child, our family had a 50^th anniversary party for my grandparents, and I remember thinking, “Lord, they are old. They’ve been together a long time.” But my first date with Jim was almost 60 years ago!  So, yeah, I’d say it went well.

The Gaertners married in 1964, and they will celebrate their 60^th wedding anniversary next year.

The campus you attended was very different than today’s campus.

Jim Gaertner: That’s true. The LSC hadn’t yet been built.  The Margaret Houston building was our student center, and it had the only cafeteria on campus.

During Gaertner’s first year on campus, SHSU’s unofficial mascot, “Tripod,” was still alive and part of campus life.  This mutt, who had been abandoned in the 1940s, had only three working legs, hence his name.  But he was communally adopted by the student body: he was fed; lavished with attention; and provided with shelter.  He died in 1962, and he is buried on campus.

Jim, did you ever meet Tripod?

JG: I did, and I had heard a lot about him before I ever met him.  One day, I was walking to class, and there he was. I walked over to pet him, and he didn’t really respond.  He was old at this time, and he had likely been petted so much and given so much attention, he just wasn’t impressed with my affection.  But I went to his funeral.  They dismissed classes for the service, President Lowman spoke, and there was a three-gun salute, one for each working leg. Tripod was a celebrity.

Nancy, the early 1960s was a different time for females on college campuses.  Was there a curfew?

NG: Yes.  We had to be in at 9 p.m. during the week, unless you were at the library, in which case you could come in later.  I went to the “library” a lot. (laughter)

Where did you live?

NG: Before Jim and I married, I lived at Elliott Hall.  After we married, we lived in Gintz apartments. Interestingly, our neighbors included Ron and Ruth Blatchley.  After we all left SHSU, we lost touch.  But after Jim became SHSU’s President, we attended an alumni event in Bryan, Texas, and we ran into them again.  We didn’t recognize each other at first, but then we realized we had been neighbors long ago!

JG: Ron has been very successful in business, was Mayor of Bryan, and he served as Chairman of the Board of Regents. They also have been generous donors to SHSU, funding, among other things, the Blatchley Bell Tower on campus.

Although less than 20 years old, the Blatchley Bell Tower is now a key landmark on campus and central to many SHSU traditions.  It is a major stopping point on prospective student tours. According to campus superstition, freshmen, sophomores, and juniors should avoid walking under it, lest they not graduate on time.  And it is one of the most popular backdrops for graduation photos.

Jim, you graduated with your Bachelors in 1965 and your Masters in 1970, both from SHSU; what followed?

JG: I earned my doctorate from Texas A&M in 1977, then we moved to Indiana, and I taught at Notre Dame for seven years.  They had a London MBA program, and I directed that one year.

NG: The move to London really provided amazing opportunities.  We had two children at the time, Scott and Denise.  Jim had a job; he had a schedule to keep.  I didn’t!  I planned my week out each Sunday. I’d get the kids off to school, then I would go explore.  It was wonderful; I took a gourmet cooking class, among many other things. I didn’t stay home one day. 

What was it like adjusting from the states to London?

NG: In some ways, it was a bigger adjustment going from Texas to Indiana. We had both lived in Texas our entire lives before going to Indiana.  Also, there was a big difference in campus culture between Texas A&M and Notre Dame.  Social gatherings were more relaxed in Texas, too, I think.  It was just a different life, but we made many friends in Indiana, and we enjoyed ourselves.  We would take the train from South Bend to Chicago, and we would visit museums or go shopping.  We traveled when we could.

Nancy, you graduated from Indiana?

NG: Yes, from Indiana University South Bend (IUSB), but we moved from Indiana to San Antonio before I graduated.  Once we moved back to San Antonio, I did my student teaching and completed a couple of classes, which then transferred back to IUSB, and I officially graduated.

Nancy’s formal teaching career lasted two decades, and she was selected “Teacher of the Year” at Curington Elementary (Boerne) in 1989.  Her teaching career was varied, working with all levels of students and multiple grades. She led an environmental club, worked with students to build a reading garden, a butterfly garden, and to implement a recycling program. Jim served as professor, chair, dean, and interim provost at the University of Texas San Antonio.

Jim, when did you think about possibly becoming a university president?

JG: Let me preface that response with a side note.  When I was at Notre Dame and serving on a committee there, our president, Father Theodore Hesburgh, wanted to meet and speak with the committee members.  He spoke with us about committee service, and about doing what is right.  He capped that discussion with a comment made in passing, noting that, “Some of you will be university presidents one day.”  And I remember thinking, “Man, I just want to get tenure.”  The thought of becoming president did not seriously occur to me until I became acting provost at UTSA.  I worked closely with the president during that time, and that was the first time I thought that might be a role for me.

Were you actively seeking a president’s position when the vacancy occurred at SHSU?

JG: No, not really.  I had applied for the position of president at UTSA, and I was a finalist, but I wasn’t selected.  I thought my time had passed for that position, and I was content. But when I heard about the SHSU opening, it caught my attention.

What type of questions do they ask candidates for university president?

JG: The questions were straightforward, as I remember them.  They asked me what made me qualified for the job; what my priorities would be, if selected. One thing that was interesting, when I had been dean at UTSA, I had denied a couple of professors tenure, and one of them sued me for $2,000,000.  I remember calling the UT System office and asking if I was covered for this.  They told me I was covered for $200,000, and I said, “I don’t have the other $1.8 million.”  I remember that vividly—

I’d remember that vividly, too—

JG: As it turned out, the suit didn’t amount to anything, but I thought it would hurt me when applying to SHSU.  But after I was selected president, a member of the committee told me it helped me, because the committee thought, “Well, here’s a guy who will stick his neck out to uphold standards.”

You mentioned they asked you what your priorities as president would be.  What was your first objective?

JG:  I think if you are running a university, you must think of academics first. One thing I worked to implement was reducing the teaching load to nine hours a semester, so professors could do more research.  I was convinced this would allow us to continue to attract high-quality professors and give them the chance to pursue the kind of career they wanted.

The look of the campus changed under your tenure as president.

JG: I became President of SHSU in 2001, and the University had not built a new dorm since 1968, so new dorm construction was a priority.  I believed newer and nicer dorms would attract more students to campus.  This also involved removing some of the older dorms, such as Wilson and Frels, which were in the middle of campus and were eyesores.

With Wilson and Frels removed, the center of campus became an open plaza, now named “The Frank Parker Plaza.” Urban design specialists refer to open and accessible areas as “civic spaces,” places that attract people—who, in turn, congregate.  From such designs, communities form, much as has happened at SHSU.  The Frank Parker Plaza—graced by the Blatchley Bell Tower—is now the key campus gathering place, somewhat akin to the “agora” in the Greek city-states.

What other physical changes did you initiate on campus?

JG: We created The Woodlands Center, giving us a presence in that growing community.  We also built the College of Humanities and Social Sciences building.  We renovated the Peabody Library, turning it into a place to host special events.  And, of course, the Performing Arts Center; Nancy and I are very proud of that.

The James and Nancy Gaertner Performing Arts Center is the most impressive of the buildings constructed since the 1920s.  In 2015, College Degree Search identified the structure as one of the “25 Most Amazing Campus Arts Centers” in the United States.

What other goals did you have when you returned to SHSU?

JG: I thought more focus should be given to athletics. This is an area that all people—students, faculty, staff, alumni, and the surrounding community—can rally around, and I thought that would help build institutional pride and provide publicity.

During his tenure as President, Gaertner also created an online program at SHSU, bringing in Bill Angrove from UTSA as director.  He expanded the University’s alumni and advancement offices, creating an infrastructure capable of initiating the University’s first-ever capital campaign.

Nancy, what was the adjustment like for you when Jim became President?

NG: It was an adjustment.  I really loved teaching, and before Jim took the SHSU job, we had just built a house.  I remember driving home from school one day, and I thought, “I just love my life.”

Man plans, and God laughs.

NG: That is true! I was supportive of Jim applying for the presidency, but it was an adjustment for me to stop teaching and to assume the role of what people referred to as “first lady.” It turned out to be a much larger role than I ever imagined.  I really thought I would just be going to a lot of dinners. (laughter)

JG: She quickly developed her own reputation, as people picked up on her competency and her ability to get along with people and to get things done.

NG: At one point, I told Jim, “I don’t know what I am supposed to be doing,” but he encouraged me to make the role my own, specializing in what I enjoy.  This prompted me to think, “What do I want?  What can I add to the university and to the community?”  It then seemed simple: I love fitness, education, children, and wellness. One of the things we did was to provide employees with the opportunity for 30 minutes of work time each day for wellness activities.  I thought this was important not only for individuals’ wellbeing, but also institutionally.  Healthy employees miss less work and are more productive while at work.

During Jim’s nine years as President of SHSU, Nancy—to paraphrase a recent movie—did almost everything, everywhere, and all at once.  She was on the CASA Board, the Friends of the Library, the Huntsville Memorial Hospital Board, and the Chamber of Commerce Board.  She served as President of the Huntsville Study Club.  She was selected as President of the Friends of the Wynne.  She chaired the City’s Cultural District Committee, working with state officials to secure a “Cultural District” designation for the community. She also co-chaired the “Let’s Talk” committee on campus, which raised hundreds of thousands of dollars in scholarships for SHSU students.

Nancy received the Alumni Service Award in 2006; she and Jim were given the “Sandhop Spirit of Huntsville Award” by the Chamber of Commerce in 2015; and in 2017, Nancy was recognized as the “Outstanding Supporter of the Arts” by SHSU’s Department of Art “because of the many ways she has positively influenced the Huntsville community and the University community through her tremendous support of the arts.”

JG: I really cannot emphasize enough how instrumental she was in helping lead the University.  She was so involved on and off campus that it really lightened my load, led to advantages for the institution, and built important bridges between the community and the University. She was an ambassador for SHSU and the larger community.

The titles “ambassador” and “first lady” turned out to be more appropriate than anyone might have thought.  When Jim and Nancy went to Thailand, they had lunch with Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, an SHSU alum.  When the Prime Minister came to Texas, he made an eleventh-hour decision to visit SHSU. With little more than a day’s notice, the couple (and friends) pulled together a dinner, which they hosted at their house, entertaining the head of state—and his security entourage.

Jim, you retired in 2010, after nine years as President.  What led you to think that was the right time?

JG: It wasn’t a hasty decision, and it wasn’t prompted by one single factor.  It was partially that I had done most of the things as President I had set out to do; it was partially that I wanted to spend more time with my family; it was a little bit of burnout, and I think it’s natural and usually positive to have turnover at the top of a university every decade or so.  It wasn’t one single thing.  It was just a rational decision.

You are now President Emeritus, and you still go into the office.  How do you balance staying active in things without appearing to overreach?

JG: This can be a problem, especially when you stay in the same town.  It is a continuum, and you don’t want to come off as uninterested or as uncaring about the University; you also don’t want to be seen as trying to still run things.  It’s important not to go too far in either direction.  I have tried to err on the side of being less involved rather than being thought of as too involved.

How do the two of you spend your time now that you are retired?

NG: I am still very involved with the Wynne Home, continuing to serve as President of the “Friends of the Wynne.” I have taught a Pilates class for several years now.  I also bake and cook, and we love to travel.

JG: Let me add to that: Nancy is a wonderful cook.  She is really capable of some culinary craftsmanship.  In fact, when we came back to SHSU, one of the areas she took on was the dining at special events.  She worked with Aramark to ensure we would have top-notch food, excellent service, special menus for special events, and the like.

NG: I thought it was important that the University be presented very positively during special events.  I love good food, and the food and its presentation are important.

Jim, what kinds of things do you do now?

JG: I still do work, but not as much as I did immediately after retiring.  I do some unofficial mentoring, just people stopping by the office now and then, and asking, “What should I do about this situation?”  I give presentations occasionally, as well.  I golf, and I enjoy travel.  I also write about our family, stories that we enjoy and want preserved.

Speaking of family, you raised three children—Scott, Denise, and Amanda—and you also have two grandchildren. You suffered a loss in 2020 when Denise passed away. I am sure some of our readers have had this befall them as well.  Could you discuss the impact of losing an adult child?

JG: You know, it’s really tough.  You think about it a lot.  She had diabetes and was having heart problems, so we knew she was in poor health.  It wasn’t a shock, but it was tragic for us.

NG: I don’t know how to describe it.  Your children are a part of you, and when they are here, you think about them on a day-to-day basis.  But when they are gone, the memories come in floods: I remember when she learned to walk; when she started school; and when she went to Okinawa in the military.  Your children are a part of you, and they are a part of you forever.

The Gaertners established the Denise Gaertner Tippy Endowment for Veterans, a scholarship that, as the name suggests, will benefit student veterans at SHSU.  At the time of its establishment, Jim noted: “I hope the students who receive the scholarship will appreciate her and then also be inspired to give back in the future and pay it forward to someone else.  It is a tremendous way in which Denise can be remembered forever.”

Denise had a son, one of two grandchildren you have.

NG: That is correct.  Her son, Cody Tippy, is living in Laramie, Wyoming, and he is a state trooper.  Our youngest child Amanda is living in the San Antonio area.  And our son Scott is married to Wendy, and they live in the Austin area.  They have a son named Riley Gaertner.  He is attending Colorado University—Boulder.

Your grandchildren seem to enjoy the west, and if I recall correctly, so do you two.

NG: We love the southwest and the west.  One of our favorite towns is Santa Fe, and we go there and then explore some of the towns and even states nearby.  In the past few years, we’ve done that a couple of times, visiting St. George, Utah and Monument Valley, Arizona.  It’s just a beautiful area in which to spend time.  We’ve traveled so much, sometimes the trips run together.

What’s a recent trip you enjoyed?

NG: A couple of years ago, we traveled for an entire month!  We drove up to Montana, then into Canada, and we visited Banff. On that same trip, we went to Victoria, British Columbia, which is one of our favorite places.  And then we drove south through California’s wine country.  It was a wonderful trip.

Jim, after you retired from Sam as President, you went back to work for the Texas State University System.  Any chance of you taking another job?

JG: That’s very unlikely. And even when I took the TSUS position, which was 12 years ago, I initially turned it down.  The Chairman of the Board of Regents then reached out and asked me to reconsider.  I met with the Chancellor and told him I would consider it, but the interim position would have to end in May, because I wanted the summer to do things.  I had more things I wanted to do than I had summers left to do them in.

Do you ever miss being President of SHSU?

JG: No, not anymore.  When I first retired, I’d miss seeing friends at the University every day, or being actively involved in the big decisions. I think everyone who retires misses aspects of their job at the beginning. It may have been a bit harder for me at first, because I loved the University so much, and I still do.  I just don’t miss the day-to-day work that goes into being president.  Nancy and I are remarkably fortunate, and life is good.